67 Comments Add your own

• 1. Jess  |  February 21st, 2010 at 11:20 pm

  Yes. Shocking. SHOCKING. I have NEVER had anyone say ANYTHING like that to me (and I am a Jew who has had two decidedly non-Jewish names, by birth and by marriage), and if I did I would be stunned. And speechless. And horrified. And disgusted. But I also wouldn’t have said anything, I don’t think, and I also don’t think I would have regretted not saying anything after the fact. You have to pick your battles, you know? I don’t think either of you would have gotten anything out of that conversation.

• 2. Leanne  |  February 21st, 2010 at 11:55 pm

  I’ve heard it said that those that have experienced the most racism in their life directed their way, can end up being the most racist in the end. Obviously this is not a hard and fast rule but I wonder if there is a grain of truth in there or how the connection works?

  Actually Chris Rock has a stand up routine about it too, about how old black dudes that have experienced incredible racism are the most racist people that you can meet (disclaimer- not saying that I believe this, I have no idea! But it sure is interesting).

• 3. Blythe  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 12:04 am

  I have a hard time saying something in situations like this. Mainly because I want everyone to like me (dreaming the impossible dream there, I realize) but also because I’ve never come up with something to say that I feel measures up to the task – that will sound intelligent and respectful without sounding like I want to start a fight, since an argument is most certainly not going to change the other person’s mind. Cowardly, probably, but there it is.

  I’ve also spent quite a bit of time with older people (Greatest Generation era, most of them) and, though age is no excuse, it really does remind you how much has changed over the years.

• 4. Anyabeth  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 12:27 am

  I always say that I get to experience anti-Semitism in a unique way because I am a blond Jew with a very not Jew last name. My husband is not ethnically Jewish but fits that look but I don’t. And when I was in the fashion industry I got hit with it constantly.

  The worst way some one I worked with, I sat next to her for YEARS, and then one day she was angry with me in negotiations and said, “Don’t k*ke me on this,” and stormed away. And then I was supposed to pretend it didn’t happen.

  Ugly.

• 5. Blythe  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 12:53 am

  I just read my comment above and it doesn’t sound exactly like I wanted it to sound. I mean, I’m not looking for approval from someone who just made a horribly racist comment, but there is just the discomfort factor that I have a hard time dealing with. These kinds of conversations make me want to run out of the room and never come back, you know? Because the person you thought you were talking to has just vanished into thin air with that one comment.

  It was incredibly humbling to live in Germany for a while and observe how nearly every single person there was still living in the cultural aftermath of WWII. Even those who don’t remember it have been affected by it. I think you’re right – America hasn’t internalized this war to even a fraction of the extent that it probably should.

• 6. Sahara  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 1:23 am

  I could go on and on and ON about this particular WWII/we have no idea thing. I made a totally spur-of-the-moment solo trip to Berlin in 2008 (while fourish months pregnant) because apparently I couldn’t get my head around this whole historical THING and wanted to have a closer look.

  And hello? Pregnant/hormonal is such an AWESOME time to be visiting WWII/Holocaust sites. weep weep weep (publicly)weep some more. I am absolutely FASCINATED by how the Germans in particular have absorbed this era into their national psyche. Like, how do you acknowledge that you/your parents/your grandparents (as a country, but also to some extent as individuals) wrought such INCREDIBLE damage on the entire WORLD? Like, how do you apologize enough but also, y’know MOVE ON from that kind of horror? It is all deeply twisted and fascinating. I am still reading stuff from that period in time and am still stunned every time I think about it (often).

  I guess I’ll have to give Suite Francaise another go–I didn’t make it through the first time. If you are interested in another historical fiction set in that era, I just finished Sarah’s Key. Depressing, sad, but also it seems to really be trying to communicate just how far-reaching those events were. And it’s a really quick read.

  ————-

  I can’t handle situations like the one you were in. I am so non-confrontational I just get all hot and shaky and completely freeze up and can’t speak. It’s such a terrible feeling. Reason #56294743 I will never be a trial lawyer.

• 7. Erin (Snarke)  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 2:55 am

  I’ve been trying to come up with a good comment for a while–about the racism I’ve experienced directed at me when I was a kid (the only white kid in my Hawaiian elementary school) and the stomach churning racism I encounter regularly now through conversations with certain members of the family I married into (NOT my husband obviously)–but everything I write turns into a lengthy…bleccchfest.

  It’s an incredibly difficult situation to be in. The shock and horror at what has just been said to you, the wanting to say something about the crap that has just been flung in your face and the knowledge that NOTHING good could come from it so you decide to swallow the bile and just move on… it never feels good and somehow knowing that you’ve avoided something worse doesn’t make it feel better.

• 8. AndreAnna  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 8:23 am

  Wow. Just wow.

  We were at our accountant the other day getting our taxes done. This is a guy who has done my husband’s family’s business and personal finances and taxes for decades and has been our accountant since we’ve been married.

  Always been a super great guy and a lovely conversationalist. I mean, I never wanted to like have dinner with him or anything but truly nice guy.

  Then the other day we were discussing our upcoming move to Iowa, and I was expressing my concern that my children would know very little diversity there (I grew up in an urban area outside NYC so had VERY diverse friends and childhood and still do) and I hope to find ways to expose them, like keeping them in martial arts, enrolling them in museum classes, etc. Places I’m likely to find a vast array of different kinds of people.

  I said, “I just don’t want every person my kids interact with to be white.”

  And he replied, “Yeah, wouldn’t THAT be terrible.”

  As if an ALL WHITE world is BEST.

  OMG.

  Needless to say, I have to find a new accountant.

• 9. kakaty  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 9:27 am

  All of my grandparents have passed but I had so many similar conversations with them in the past. These kind, loving people who were the world in my eyes saying hateful, racist/sexist things as if they were normal conversational banter.

  It took me awhile but I finally came to the conclusion that this is how they grew up, this is what they learned from their parents and their friends and it was almost as hard-wired in them as their religion was. And while they might have, for a time, filtered these thoughts from their speech, age brings with it the sometimes wonderful, sometimes shocking ability to no longer filter what you say. I’m not defending it; I think I just can understand where it comes from. And that doesn’t take away the shock factor.

  But, I have to admit the last time I took my 80-something, half-deaf, Polish grandma grocery shopping she ran into one of her equally deaf friends and I hid in frozen foods as they shouted gossip at each other about other friends – “did you hear? So-and-so’s granddaughter got pregnant by a Mexican? She’s so going to have a brown great-grandchild!” and the like. They thought they were whispering but anyone within 15 feet could hear every word. It was mortifying!!

• 10. Marie Green  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 9:28 am

  That IS just absolutely shocking. I wonder if he felt… entitled (??) to have this kind of judgement since HE’D been the target of it so many times? You would think, as you said, that this would make him LESS likely to feel that way, but perhaps after a lifetime of people feeling… superior or whatever to HIM, it was his way of feeling superior to SOMEONE?

  My god, I’m totally TOTALLY not defending him… I just would love to know the psychology behind it. People! They never cease being… interesting, to say the least.

  Wow. I’m still just… shocked.

  (Also, now your last name will be VERY EASILY associated with the Jewish community, thanks to the newest American Girl doll. =)

• 11. Marie Green  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 9:30 am

  Also, my most recent favorite WWII book is The Book Thief by Markus Zusak.

• 12. AndreAnna  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 10:09 am

  Marie – that book left me WEEPING. For DAYS. I grieved, seriously.
  Such a good book though.
  But man, so intense.

• 13. mouthy_broad  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 10:14 am

  i have several thougths in response to this-
  i don’t know if it was how i was raised (protestants who spent every holiday with jews), the town (midwestern) i was raised in or what–but i don’t know what anyone “is” be it jewish, italian, whatever. and i don’t really have any idea (watching the olympics teaches me of sorts) what someone is “supposed to look like if they are jewish, polish, etc. so it is possible that he had no idea that your last name is “jewish.”
  DOES NOT EXCUSE IT. but he could be dumb like me in that “don’t know what people are” thing. but my family doesn’t say things like that about ANYONE.
  i work for someone who lived through world war II in greece. they are still completely bitter about it. i think all europeans are still bitter and they still take it out on the germans to this day. (not unjustifiably so, but still…)
  i do think that some people who lived through it and saw the bloodshed and destruction in a way try to say to themselves, “if only there weren’t jews in the first place, none of us would have had to suffer through all that.” not that it makes sense, b/c surely hitler would have found a new scapegoat. but i think they cope with the aftermath and pain in that way. (this is my personal theory.)

  finally in rsponse to your stunned silence–i too have experienced that. not so much when i lived in the midwest, but living in DC today and for years now–COUNTLESS TIMES someone has said something anti-semetic to me. i mean one time i was getting a building permit and the Bangladeshi (he told me-i don’t guess) man who reviewed the electrical plans started talking to me and ended up telling me that jews take everyone’s money. ??? i had no idea what the hell i was supposed to say to that. furthermore DC has a large jewish population. i was just stunned to silence. it caught me so off-gaurd.
  maybe if i was talking to someone that i knew to be anti-semetic then i would be ready with responses, but when it seemingly comes out of nowhere-i just have no idea.

• 14. Annie  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 am

  I can’t even imagine dealing that kind of racism. I’ve got several different ethnicities in my background, but, by far, the predominant is Irish. My last name and looks show it, too. I have mixed feelings about St. Patrick’s Day because people use it as an excuse to “be Irish” for the day and then drink themselves into an oblivion and it’s cool! Because they are “Irish!” It also makes me sad that I know very little about my Native American heritage because a few generations back, people were too ashamed by it to really document it well for future generations.

  I don’t understand why people feel entitled to put themselves above an enTIRE group of people (Jewish, Black, Irish, Mexican, Women, whatever!), based on, well, almost anything. Okay, I understand it’s because people learn that attitude from those around them, but, really? How can you just teach that to your kids, as if it’s the RIGHT thing to do?

  That being said, my fiance (who happens to be a staff sergeant in the army and a Ranger) is concerned about what one of his elderly relatives may do at our wedding when seeing that I have a Mexican step grandma and a black aunt (and three black cousins). Totally sad.

• 15. jonniker  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 10:28 am

  Kakaty: I agree with you, yes. And if it had been an old white dude, I’d have just brushed it off and thought nothing of it — that’s happened many times. Oh, the old people who think blacks are still called “coloreds,” oh dear SHIT.

  But it was AMAZING and INFINITELY MORE SHOCKING to sit through days of stories from a man who had suffered so much at someone else’s prejudice, only to hear him turn around and perpetuate that behavior on another minority group. It was a total mindfuck in a way I hadn’t experienced before.

  Mouthy Broad: Of course he had no idea. It wouldn’t have made much of a difference in my reaction, though, if he had.

• 16. Ashley  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 11:48 am

  It is shocking! I have heard my grandparents say some pretty shocking things- because they’re in their eighties and nineties and have decided they don’t need to sensor themselves anymore. It’s interesting the things they have been taught and held onto as personal beliefs. As well as how some old people are ok with talking about bodily functions- also horrifying.

• 17. Joe  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 1:05 pm

  Nice post. I’ve had people, wait, make that, I’ve had friends (mostly in my fraternity days) deny that the Holocaust ever happened; feel my head for horns (he was only kind of kidding around); ask me if I was “sure” that I was Jewish (as if I could get a second opinion of an unfortunate diagnosis); spray paint swastikas on our fraternity house; and hang Confederate flags out the window. The thing is, none of it really bothered me, and I’ve wondered over the years why that is. I guess I don’t see any of it as an attack on me personally, and I’d rather not become embroiled in a shouting match with someone who obviously isn’t playing with a full deck. So in response to the WWII vet, I probably would have said something like, “Oh, I don’t know, I’m sure there are a few okay ones.” Maybe it’s the security of knowing (or believing) that such statements have little actual repucussions in this day and age, at least in this country. That my happy little childhood and comfortable adulthood allow such statements to be taken in stride. Of course, if he had said “you Jews” instead of “the Jews,” then the tone of the conversation changes, and I might tell that sweet 88-year-old WWII vet to go straight to hell.

• 18. Shelly  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 1:53 pm

  It is definitely a mindfuck to hear that coming from someone who was a victim of prejudice himself. But it seems to me that people rarely learn from experience. Or anything else.

• 19. cindy w  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 2:08 pm

  I was born & raised in Mississippi, so in a way it’s sad, but I read this, and instead of being shocked, I just thought, “Hmm. Yeah.” Because it sounds like almost everyone of that generation that I knew growing up.

  Don’t know if you’re a Daily Show viewer, but there was one segment recently where they were covering the issue of gay marriage laws in New Jersey. There was an older black woman out there protesting against the passage of the gay marriage law, and she said, “You know, as a black person, and as a woman, having been discriminated against and oppressed for decades, to be able to come out here today, and….” And the guy cut her off and said, “Oppress somebody else?” Which, YEAH, that’s exactly what she’s doing. You’d think she would’ve seen the correlation there, but apparently not. I don’t get it.

• 20. Christine  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 3:01 pm

  Uh, yeah. Wow, that story totally took a turn I wasn’t expecting. We were in Japan last week, in the Edo Museum, learning a little of Tokyo’s history from our awesome Japanese elderly tour guide. And then we got to World War II, and here’s this guy who lived through it, lived through air raids which killed 100,000 (which is thought to be a low figure) telling us how before the war, they lived in fear and constant toil, and how they had democracy and freedoms afterward and then he thanked us. Let’s not even talk about nuclear war, just air raids: at least 100,000. And Jesus, it was all I could do not to say: no, no, my grandfather never served overseas because he was injured and on my mother’s side, we were all still in Italy, seriously: Allies. Argh.

  But I mean, man, the racism thing is a kick in the pants. And everytime I hear it, I think: Really? But really?

• 21. Shannon  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 3:29 pm

  Yeah, even as a red-headed, freckled woman of Scotch-Irish descent, I think that comment would have knocked the wind out of me. I wouldn’t have said anything either, for the same reason – it likely wouldn’t change an 88-year old man’s opinion. It’s also why I’ve never argued with my or my husband’s grandparents when they have used racist terms. I’ll generally make it known that I don’t like the terms but won’t argue the point. I just hope that generations are evolving away from it. I hope.

• 22. H  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 3:43 pm

  Well, I didn’t anticipate where you were going with that post and my jaw dropped to the floor when I read what he said. I don’t get it either, and I generally react like you reacted because I can never ever think of the right response no matter the situation. I am easily stunned beyond words. Although, when I’m NOT surprised by a controversial comment, I tend to first assess whether or not my comments will change the other person’s mind or not and I will tailor what or how much I say based on that.

• 23. Leah  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 3:48 pm

  Simon’s grandma was a hardcore Bible-thumping Baptist, and one of the great dreams of her life was for Simon’s sister to marry her (his sister’s) longtime best friend, Chris, who was cute and charming and polite and successful and OH SO VERY GAY. She spent a lot of time with this guy and always said, “Oh, I can’t wait until they get married.” Finally, when she was in her seventies, they broke it to her that Chris would not be marrying Mel, or any woman, for that matter, and as everyone braced themselves for her display of disapproval and disgust, they instead watched as this woman, set in her ways and extremely religious and conservative, decided that if Chris was gay then gay must be okay after all.

  This gives me hope that it’s never too late for people to change.

• 24. Penny  |  February 22nd, 2010 at 4:58 pm

  Only two thoughts:

  1) It is funny that you say “the greatest generation ever” because in my very limited experience with the WWII generation is that they are greedy, selfish, often hateful motherfuckers. I mean, on a scale on par with, I don’t know, a huge scale of some kind. It’s jaw-dropping, as you say.

  2) It is easier, I think, to be tolerant of different cultures and way of living when you are not in survival mode, which is what a lot of the WWII generations were. Not that this excuses anyone’s hateful comments! But I think, if we were all, say, pressed into a great big world war that defined not only our childhood but our everyday adult lives, I would think we would be seeing much more of the blanket hating comments. Thus, we are not better people then our previous generations, we are simply lucky that we do not have such a test of strength and will.

• 25. Kristabella  |  February 23rd, 2010 at 12:39 pm

  Wow. I have a friend, who is my age and grew up in the Chicago suburbs who is a huge racist. She’ll use the N word, etc. in my presence. And because we are both from the same area, she’ll routinely say “Right, Kris?” Like being from Chicagoland MAKES me a racist.

  And no. NO! NOT AT ALL! And it is so uncomfortable to me because she’s just 32, and has two kids and it sickens me to think that she’ll teach them this prejudice.

• 26. Suniverse  |  February 23rd, 2010 at 2:46 pm

  My family are immigrants and where they came from, they were an ill-treated minority – hate crimes, genocide, the works.

  And they are, by and large, the most racist people I have ever met. It is staggering. Racist against EVERYONE who is not their heritage/religion. Sometimes down to the region of their birth.

  I think it tends to happen when there is such great animosity toward people for skin color/religion/ethnicity; they tend to become insular and reflect it back. I don’t know. It’s what I tell myself.

  The hilarious thing is that I married a generic American guy 14 years ago, and he is, without question, the exception that proves their rule.

  My dad and my unmarried sister were talking about a cousin’s wedding to someone outside our heritage. Dad told sis she’s not allowed to marry an American. Sis said, “What about Suniverse? She’s married to Generic American.” Dad said, “That different. He doesn’t count.”

  My cousin was talking to her dad, and he said, “You can’t have a marriage between us and Americans. They just don’t work. There is no way.”

  My cousin said, “What about Suniverse and her husband? He’s American.”

  Her dad, “That’s different.”

  Yeah. O.k.

• 27. Beth Fish  |  February 24th, 2010 at 8:52 pm

  I actually love it when that sort of thing happens, because I just smile as sweetly as I can and say “Oh, I’m Jewish.” Which is technically true (very technically, but still) and the look of shame on their faces makes me feel so much better about whatever they said.

• 28. Katrina  |  February 24th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

  I too have been in that situation of being so shocked by a comment that you can’t even say anything. And felt dirty or ashamed later for not letting that person know that I disagree. Does anybody have a good standard response to keep on our back pockets for those situations?

• 29. SwingCheese  |  February 25th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

  My dad used to travel a lot for work, and as such, he worked with many different folks in many different areas of the country. One of my favorite stories is when he met his co-worker (whom he had not known previously), and within a few days, he (the co-worker) began to spout racist dogma. My dad simply let him go on and on, and at the end of his rant, he turned to my dad and said, “Right?” To which my father smiled and replied, “My wife is black.”

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• 31. labatterie  |  April 29th, 2010 at 1:36 am

  I too have been in that situation of being so shocked by a comment that you can’t even say anything.

• 32. organisme rachat de credit  |  May 13th, 2010 at 5:14 am

  it likely wouldn’t change an 88-year old man’s opinion. It’s also why I’ve never argued with my or my husband’s grandparents when they have used racist terms. I’ll generally make it known that I don’t like the terms but won’t argue the point. I just hope that generations are evolving away from it. I hope.

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