Rich Girl

October 28th, 2010

As I get older, it becomes more and more clear that I have a huge chip on my shoulder when it comes to perceived elitism, and more directly, and for lack of a more gentle term, People With A Shitload of Money. It’s hard to really pinpoint my reaction, but I’ll say that it comes in the form of becoming super-defensive and twitchy when I’m in certain towns or see certain types of cars, or hear that someone I’m meeting is FROM a certain town. I have a list of towns that I’ll never live in, because I don’t want to feel inadequate, and worse, I don’t want my kids to feel inadequate.

Now, there’s something to be said for being down to earth (I am, extremely so) and grounded (ditto) and wanting to make sure that your kids are surrounded by people who have those values, and there is a strong argument to be made that in one’s formative years, confidence may be built by at least living in a geographic area where there is a relatively even playing field of economic factors. But it would be a fallacy to say that People With A Shitload of Money automatically, by way of their Shitloads of Money, don’t have those values, you know?

I don’t really know. I just know that I have this total chip on my shoulder about it, and I am at least grateful that I’m aware of it, although that doesn’t help matters much. On the other hand, when I’m at gym class with my kid and a mom who lives in one of The Towns With Shitloads of Money announces that I should move there, because although everyone lives in mansions, they are super down to earth! And their kids wear Old Navy! Rich People: They’re Just Like Us!, I kind of want to announce that yes, but we can’t AFFORD a $3M mansion, so believe me darling, you are nice, but your breath is wasted. I’d also like to note that she said this while noting that the people in the Other Rich Competitive Town Next Door are super snobby and won’t talk to her when she goes there, and all I could think was that rich people really ARE like us, in that they stereotype just as badly as we do.

This isn’t really making any sense, is it? I mean, I have friends in all of the traditionally wealthy towns up here, and frankly none of them are terrifyingly wealthy (probably on par with us, honestly, and while we’re fine, we’re far from Rich), and they are all down to earth and well-valued, etc. etc. It’s just this CHIP I have on my shoulder about those towns that when people ask me if I’d ever consider moving to them, I practically SNORT IN THEIR FACE and announce that we’re moving to [Insert really high crime bad neighborhood here], where the Normal People live. Normal people who want their kids to be illiterate and get shot on their way to school, that is. But you see, I swing like a pendulum.

Am I making it clear that this is MY problem? I hope I am.

I grew up … well, poor might be too strong a word, but my family certainly didn’t have a lot of extra money, if any at all. (And I’m talking about my bio mom’s side, and this may all get confusing, but it’s where I lived primarily and ah, divorced families, so hard to explain.) (Also things have since turned around for them, so …)

But the thing is, almost EVERYONE in my tiny town was pretty, uh, downtrodden, in a lot of ways. At least the people I hung out with, anyway, and it wasn’t a big school district. In some ways, it was utopia, because there was no competition, very few kids had cars, and we missed most expensive fashion trends because no one could afford them anyway. I really didn’t know we were in the lower end of the economic spectrum, until it came time for me to go to college, and I had to go where I got the biggest financial aid package (Syracuse, as for a myriad reasons, state schools weren’t an option, as my mom and stepdad — my primary residence — were moving out of state, ETC OH MY GOD CONFUSING).

Fine, great, off I went. And OH HO HO, Syracuse. I’d never seen money like that in my life. Did YOU know Syracuse has a super-wealthy population? Because I didn’t, and that was sure something they didn’t explain on my lame little campus tour. Kids CAME TO SCHOOL with luxury cars. To school! With leather-interior brand-new BMWs! At age 18! I was casually in conversation with a nice young man who was talking about his father, who worked in Hollywood. “Oh, what does he do?” I asked. “Um, he’s [famous character actor],” he answered. My roommate sophomore year had a $1,000/month clothing allowance. Ha ha! I don’t even think I paid a thousand dollars a month in TUITION BILLS. No — I KNOW I didn’t.

It was nuts. I was terrified. I panicked. And while I think there were a lot of contributing factors and bad choices on my part that made my school experience a flood of inadequacy and panic, I think it’s hard not to panic in that situation, and I spent the majority of my college experience feeling Not Good Enough by the simple fact that I didn’t come from Money, or even money, with the little ‘m’ and everything. After all, I didn’t even have a beat-up clunker at school, much less a Mercedes, and besides, my dining hall work study job didn’t bring in enough cash to cover anything beyond the basic beer and pizza runs, so mall trips were out.

My summer jobs paid for part of my tuition and most of the money I had to live on the entire year. I bought precisely one pair of jeans while attending college, and I used Sun-In in my hair because I couldn’t afford to color or cut it (I typically cut it on visits home). Meanwhile, my contemporaries were composing rush skits around the fact that everyone was simply HAD to buy the latest pair of Georgia boots. I remember filling out the paperwork for my sorority and choosing a big sister, and writing down, “Please, give me someone else on financial aid, too.” Knowing how embarrassed I was about my financial situation, I MUST have been desperate to admit it out loud, on paper and everything, my God.

(They did.)

(Apropos of nothing, I did spend a significant portion of my money one semester going tanning, for reasons that make no sense to me, other than I got addicted and had SAD — it WAS Syracuse, after all, which is effing DARK)

And all this is before I brought home a boyfriend and we visited my best friend from high school (who is, ironically, now quite famous in certain circles) and when we walked into her house — which was a disaster, with ratty, ancient furniture and peeling paint and falling-down cabinets in a way that I’d realized he’d probably never seen — and I saw it through his eyes, and it was a little like my whole world just fell away. I’d never NOTICED those things before, because this was just a house I spent time with my best friend in. And there I was, mortified for her, for me, for everything. Over nothing, really, for it was all quite meaningless.

I still kind of hate myself for that moment.

What’s crazy is that I still haven’t really gotten over this, and it is, I think, solely responsible for the Mount Rushmore-sized chip I carry around on my shoulder every day. My economic situation has changed, certainly, and I’m happy and we’re comfortable, and I honestly don’t want for anything — it’s not that I WANT Shitloads of Money, it’s that I am strangely afraid and hostile about the people who HAVE Shitloads of Money, because I assume that they are like the adolescents of my college experience, who were, in a word, assholes, by the simple fact that they were too young to know any better. This is, obviously, totally wrong. Well, sometimes, anyway.

I have no idea where I’m going with this, and I recognize that this is the most poorly written and thought-out thing I’ve put up here, but I wanted to work through it and think about it and be honest with myself about why I’m such a douche about this and VOILA! Here we are. Incoherent thoughts on why I’m an asshole about People With Money, by Jonna.

Have a great weekend! Twice a week, anyway, despite promises of three. Improvement?

PS, I’m glad I went to Syracuse for a lot of reasons. It pushed me to be competitive, to move beyond my comfort zone and to be better at … everything. So it was a good choice, really it was. And I met Adam there, after all, so … (Adam, for the record, had a COMPLETELY different school experience, likely because he was both a) a male; and b) came from at least some small ‘m’ money.

*Gwen Stefani

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Entry Filed under: All Riled Up,Boston!,Gettin' thinky with it

89 Comments Add your own

1. Monica | October 28th, 2010 at 9:52 pm

The culture shock I experienced when I arrived on campus at Syracuse was so disorienting — you’ve described it perfectly. What’s interesting to me is how different our paths were as a result…I was only one of two girls on my floor who didn’t rush because the very thought of it was SO terrifying to me…how would I explain my background? what would I wear? what would I say?? how would I pay for it??? I’d love to know what you decide to rush – it seems to me that it took a lot of courage in many ways,

Oh, funny story, I once won enough money at Turning Stone so I could stop working for one semester. So random, right?
2. jonniker | October 28th, 2010 at 9:58 pm

Monica, I’m really interested to hear if it affected you the same way. Also, I’m kind of pissed we didn’t meet while we were both there.

And by the way, I paid for my sorority dues via a loan from my sister, at least for the first year or two. I can’t remember what happened after that.
3. ABDPBT | October 28th, 2010 at 10:13 pm

Did I ever tell you about how Jane Lauder, Estee Lauder’s granddaughter, was in my Freshman dorm? And how at first, when I didn’t know THAT was who she was, I thought she was OK, but kind of reserved? And then I found out who she was, and decided that she was reserved because she was a raging bitch and decided that I hated her, and developed an irrational hatred for her and everything about the entire Estee Lauder family of products that persists even to some degree to this day? (And by the way, try not buying cosmetics that are manufactured by Estee Lauder. It’s tough. It’s tougher than you realize.)

But now I’m older and I realize she was just a girl from a wealthy family who had been conditioned to be wary of people trying to befriend her just because of her money. Which makes sense, because of course people would try to do that, but I of course assumed she didn’t want to be friends with me because I didn’t have her kind of money.

I guess I’m just saying, you know, money is complicated. For everyone. That’s why people like being friends with people who are the “same” or seem like they are the “same” as they are. It makes things seem easier, even if they aren’t.
4. Anne L. | October 28th, 2010 at 10:43 pm

Syracuse doesn’t have a super wealthy population… it just has a super wealthy population of kids from all over the country going to school there. I myself am lower middle class at best, as are the majority of my neighbors. Not trying to sound raggy, but this isn’t the first time I’ve heard this misconception.
5. Mama Bub | October 28th, 2010 at 10:52 pm

Money is complicated. I grew up in a family that was firmly middle class. Through some changes in my dad’s business, they are now what most people would consider wealthy. Rich. The home at the end of their street is listed for sale in the eight digits. When I graduated from college I was given a Mercedes. I was spoiled, I’ll admit that freely. But I didn’t grow up that way. I didn’t grow up wanting, but I didn’t grow up with fountains of money.

Now, I’m married to a teacher and we live on one teacher’s salary. Nearly every nice thing that we own was gifted to us by my parents, including 1/3 of our house. We have nice things, but not much money left over at the end of every month. Also? I’m terrified of people who seem to have shitloads of money. I’m considering schools for my son when he starts kindergarten and wondering if we can hold our own with the private school crowd.

Not only am I terrified of those with shitloads, I’m jealous of them. Bright green with envy. Even though I’m one of them by proxy.
6. cheken | October 28th, 2010 at 10:52 pm

Point the first: Did you venture OFF campus? Syracuse is pretty poor, as a city. I went to the “rich” high school, and while my family was for sure dirt ass poor, few were super way well off. Like “WOAH, you’re wearing Abercrombie?!” though thats when it was new. The rich people were out in J-D and Fayetteville. Mount Olympus is a huge joke to the townies, sorry. Rich asshole students.

Point the second, I feel the same way about rich people. Particularly ones my age. The only times I’ve had things stolen from me (small amounts of money and large amounts of in-use prescriptions), it’s been one of my rich asshole acquaintances. I’ve also been employed by people that serve the rich for my whole career so I’m rich assholed out.

This chip has also grown as my spouse’s former gradschool mates buy houses and travel and stuff while we are in post-doc hell. So, yeah.
7. Ginger | October 28th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

When I was little, we were super poor. Like, living with my grandparents, mom working 3 jobs, only having hand-me-downs from relatives poor (ah, divorce, bankruptcy and living in a small town with no job prospects. My poor mom). I like to joke about the fact that we were so poor I didn’t have a ken doll to go with all my hand me down Barbies, I had a Michael Jackson doll because that’s what someone at my grandma’s church got me one Christmas.(truth, and kind of funny in retrospect, though I hated that damn thing as a kid)
As I got older my mom worked her ass off, and we became solidly middle class, but that feeling of “we’re poor” never left me. High school at the “rich school” was awkward–these were high school kids who would get a Camero & then a replacement when they wrecked it. My beater Honda didn’t hold the same sway.

All that to say, the situations we have growing up affect our view of money so much it’s hard to ever outgrow them. I think we’re mostly good with money no, but I still always (especially living in the ritzy town we live in, purely by chance) feel like we’re at the bottom looking up. I don’t know what it would take to make that different. I’m not sure any amount of money would ever erase the mental place that years of being poor as a kid made for me.
8. Margot | October 28th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

No it totally makes sense! This is weirdly, precisely my experience with college & sorority life, which has persisted through my adult life as well. And here I always thought it was just me! Thank you internet, once again.

Interestingly enough, my financial aid package was such that it covered my 100% of my tuition AND my sorority dues & housing costs, which weren’t tons more than room & board at the dorms. So that wasn’t the issue, but now in hindsight it’s clear that money, or lack thereof, has a huge impact on people’s choices, relationships and life view in general. And I just chose to naively ignore that fact when I joined and spent the subsequent 4.5 years feeling woefully inadequate and stuck because I was terrified I wouldn’t make any friends if I deactivated either.

Ah, college. Ah, twenties. What I think is fascinating are people’s unique definitions of what’s rich/middle-class. That’s where all the gray area is and where all the awkwardness occurs, because everyone thinks they’re normal and it’s the “other guys” who’re the problem.
9. Erin | October 28th, 2010 at 11:55 pm

I have the same chip! Mine developed in my elementary school years because I was one of the few kids on financial aid at a private school in The Berkshires (where everyone is either RICH (and probably semi-famous) or really quite poor. Little kids from different socio-economic backgrounds don’t really treat each other especially well, especially not the ones vacationing on their own islands.
You describe it so well! I went to hoity-toity college too, but it was really different (more kids on more financial aid and there at least most of the trust-fund kids were aware enough to be a little ashamed and therefore much more tolerable- and generous!).
10. amandapm | October 29th, 2010 at 12:17 am

I went to school a little south of you and probably ten years before you at the home of the Big Red. (Starts with Corn, ends with ell.) Lots of bucks there too but I think it was a different vibe; I do not remember seeing any flashy cars. I grew up middle class, had a horse (but the equivalent of a beater compared to pals who showed every weekend and trained with Olympic equestrian team members) and rode on the equestrian team at Cornell, which evidently gave one gal I got to be friendly with the wrong impression. She really pushed me to rush her sorority (KKG) and I went along with it up until the house tour, at which time I said to myself, and perhaps actually voiced aloud to several sisters, “Think what you want but this is my only Benetton sweater and there will not be any more where this came from.” And that was that; I spent the rest of my years there happily hanging out with my fellow dining-hall working buds from Boston and Buffalo!
11. Marie Green | October 29th, 2010 at 12:29 am

I have a chip on my shoulder about rich people too. I have only one good friend who is firmly in a “higher” tax bracket, and I love her. But I also feel a tiny bit bad for her (not pity, just sympathy) because so many things she’s experiencing none of us can relate to.

There’ s a “rich group” of moms in town, and they hang out at the country club pool, and we COULD afford to join there, too, if we chose. But the idea of going to an exclusive place like a country club in such a small town really REALLY grosses me out. I just…. SHUTTER. So we hang out at the public pool instead, and I’m oddly PROUD of that.

It is a confusing thing to write about, I realize now as I’m trying to write this comment. I do feel like our groups one “richer” friend loses out on many opportunities for community simply because she’s able to hire everything done. The rest of us are swapping kids and swapping baby gear and helping each other install sump pumps and they… have a nanny and all brand new stuff and hire any home projects done. I think it isolates them, nay, I KNOW it isolates them, at least in this circumstance with this particular family.
12. jonniker | October 29th, 2010 at 6:13 am

You guys, I’m totally aware of Syracuse the town, but I’m talking about Syracuse the college/student population. I should have made that clear. But no, no one who goes to school there hangs out with locals, so you might as well be living in the Hamptons with Kelly Bensimon.

It’s virtually impossible to have the misconception that the town is wealthy if you go to school there. The, ah, campus isn’t in the nicest part of town.

Also, to be clear, I was not one of the rich asshole students, HA HA.

Also, we go back all the time, because my brother in law is a professor there.
13. mjb | October 29th, 2010 at 8:08 am

I grew up fairly low middle class (we qualified for at least partial free lunch when i was in high school) but it was in such a low income area of MN that we were looked on as uppity because my parents were both educated. And one of my friends who did have money felt awkward about it and tried to tell me that she didn’t, but that her family just chose to spend their money differently than we did. Which was nice of her, except we didn’t have money to spend. It was weird, though, because it meant that she kept her family’s boat and extra cars a secret, even though we were best friends. She transferred to a private school 45 minutes away for high school, which wasn’t an option for us. It wasn’t until we were out of college and actually paying our own bills that she realized the value of money and how well off her parents had been.

Strangely, not having money didn’t bother me at my private college, even though I had similar feelings towards the kids who did. My mostly need-based financial aid meant that I had very minimal student loans, and my college work experience prepared me for the working world. I felt worse for people who never had to get a job until after they graduated and had a harsh awakening at that point. But I was limited in certain ways, like I had to work every summer instead of doing programs abroad, and I had to go to school close to home because there was no money for plane tickets home for breaks.
14. Swistle | October 29th, 2010 at 8:55 am

My high school was a combined school for the kids coming from four different towns. The four towns REALLY varied: one farming, one very poor blue collar, one mostly blue collar with some commuting white collar (mine), and one RICH RICH RICHY RICH (not $1000 clothing allowance or BMW rich, but Quite Rich).

It was so weird to suddenly be in with these kids who just…went to salons to have their hair done for dates. And had their hair professionally colored instead of doing it with a kit. And were members of The Club. And went on honest-to-goodness VACATIONS (like, not to visit family, but to another country, or to a ski lodge). I still feel chippy about that town, and there does seem to be a certain ATTITUDE difference between People Who Live There and People Who Live Here.
15. Carla Hinkle | October 29th, 2010 at 8:58 am

You know what’s really interesting to me? It’s how while there are always rich people who know they are rich, many, many people I meet are always trying to convince me how NOT rich they are, no matter what their particular circumstances. It’s like we’ve all agreed on the narrative that Rich People Are Entitled Assholes, and I’m not rich, oh no, whether I make $50K a year or $500K, we’re just Regular Middle Class People!

It’s nice, I guess, and my husband who grew up in Europe says he really likes how Americans are, by and large, unpretentious about money. Like just look at this comment section, one would think we’re all in the same economic bracket when my guess is there’s a wide range. Anyway.

I had the experience of growing up one of the most well off families in town, though it was a very small, rural place so that doesn’t really mean much (see? I felt the need to explain that We WEREN’T REALLY RICH), my dad was the town doctor and we were always comfortable, and I had the good fortune of never worrying about money. Then I went to college in the San Francisco Bay Area in the early 90′s and let me tell you, while I’m sure there were plenty of rich kids, it was the time of grunge clothes and being very Politically Correct and acting rich or entitled was super, super uncool. So I had a part time job and drove an old, beater car but didn’t get financial aid and I don’t remember ever thinking about my (or my friends’) comparative financial circumstances.

But if you want to see the giant chip on my shoulder, just ask me anything about Cool People or Beautiful People ke being excluded from the Cool Crowd and hoo, boy, that chip will practically knock me down, it’s so gigantic.
16. Gaby | October 29th, 2010 at 9:01 am

Oh, money. It’s such a loaded topic. I admire you, Jonna, for putting your “issues” out there with such honesty.

I grew up pretty poor–only lived in rentals, qualified for school lunch, had to help my parents pay their bills from the money I made working at Target, had financial aid + work study + position on residential life (housing) staff to pay for room and board AND still worked a job as an undergraduate. Note: I’m not trying to win the “I’m the poorest” award (which would probably be comprised of tinfoil), just trying to create context.

Anyway, now I live in a small suburb in central Illinois which has a weird mix of economic status–mansions and the area’s biggest trailer park. And I look at some of the kids/teens that live there, with their new cars and designer clothes, and I have a visceral reaction to it. It takes me right back to high school, and my feelings of lack. And I don’t want my son (who, bear in mind, is four months old), to feel that sense of not good enough. So, I don’t know if we’ll really stay in this area for very long, despite the great schools. Oh! Which is an interesting topic unto itself–the school system in my town is much better than the city schools, which is most of the reason for my town’s development; the more well-to-do fled to this suburb to avoid the public schools…I know you have thoughts similar to mine on the public school issue, Jonna, so I’m sure you can get my reaction to this mentality.

All this rambling just to say that I’m still dealing with the money thing. Most strongly and recently, I’m dealing with PROFOUND feelings of envy of mothers who stay at home with their children. I would kill for the ability to work from home or work part-time in order to be at home with my baby, and I literally feel sick to my stomach with envy towards those who can. One of my best friends just had a baby a month after I had mine, and she’s staying home with him, and I’ve honestly felt as though I can’t really talk to her about my feelings related to going back to work because she just.doesn’t.get.it. It’s really hard, and I don’t know what I can do to get over it, besides just sucking it up, I guess.

Ok, sorry. This struck a nerve that is already raw, and it apparently drove me to submit a novel. Have a good weekend!
17. slynnro | October 29th, 2010 at 9:30 am

I have SO MANY THOUGHTS on this.

For starters, I went to Baylor, a wealthy private Christian college, and I had a freaking Pell Grant. I didn’t grow up poverty stricken, but my dad was a farmer until I was 13, neither of my parents went to college, and well, I was different.

But I joined a sorority and had lots of fun and while I envied my fellow students, I did my best to keep that to myself. They were, for the most part, incredibly nice and didn’t give a crap. There are assy rich people, just like there are assy poor people. I certainly have some angst about money, mostly angsty that my parents weren’t able to provide me with ANY KIND of education fund, and that they thought it was absolutely ridiculous of me to go to private college, or any 4 year college at all. And don’t even get me started on how they’ve rewritten history so that they supported me in college. I worked, but only during my junior and senior years, and plenty of my “rich” friends worked too. Other than the fact that I didn’t have a brand new car, I was able to basically fit right in. I guess I got lucky. I don’t know.

AND NOW, I’m on the other side of the equation- my husband and I are not rich, but they assume we are because of his job. It’s true, ever since I graduated from law school, we’ve had a 6 figure income, I’ve driven a BMW, and I shop and buy nice things. But that’s not WHO I am. But people assume it is, and because of what I have now, they think I’ve always had it and always been rich and I just don’t understand. Which really effing pisses me off.

And my husband, who grew up WAY more financially comfortable than I did (but his parents were certainly not rich), with parents with Master’s degrees and jobs at a college and ya know, a college fund has the same chip on his shoulder that you do. He went to a wealthy high school, where he was just middle class, and then went to Emory, which is full of really wealthy people (although by all accounts, he was decently socially adjusted at both places). He is VERY skeptical of “rich” people and goes out of his way to reject “rich” things. He doesn’t want to live in the fancy suburb I dream of, he has guilt about taking vacations, he makes snide comments about people who are, uh JUST LIKE US NOW. It’s actually the source of most of our arguments, this thing. I spend a decent amount of time trying to convince him that these people he prejudges probably have a lot more in common with him than he can imagine.

OH MONEY.
18. KT | October 29th, 2010 at 9:59 am

I went to an expensive private college and wasn’t surprised when it was similar to the public high school I went to that was ultra snobby. But instead of hating the people that had a lot of money, I simply didn’t care about them. If they were interested in expensive purses, boots, cars, etc. I just knew that I wasn’t going to be friends with them. Instead I hung out with people that were interested in more than material things.

Now, instead of hating people with a lot of money, I basically make fun of them because they spend their money on stupid things. Who needs 8 cars? Their kids grow up and don’t know the value of money and how hard it is to make money.

In our move down to CT, my husband and I chose an expensive town because it had great schools for our future kids and things to do for us. So far I haven’t met any snobby people, but I know that they are out there. And i just won’t be friends with them.
19. jonniker | October 29th, 2010 at 10:01 am

Gaby, it’s funny, because the SAHM issue is one that is also more complex than it seems. Some people are home because they can’t afford to go back to work because of the cost of daycare. Some people make the choice at huge financial sacrifices that aren’t immediately obvious.

Even though I am able to stay home, mostly, and am happy with my choice, I get MAD ENVY towards working moms sometimes, who can get sick days for themselves, even if it’s only once a year, and have a second baby and get to put their first in daycare. All stuff that’s viewed totally differently from the OTHER side, and isn’t as awesome as it seems in reality. I’m not bitter or petty about them, it’s just that sometimes I get jealous, in a totally irrational way.

I should point out that I wasn’t really envious of the rich kids at my school so much as I was … I don’t even know. Feeling inadequate, and wishing there were more people like me there. I eventually found them, but it took until my senior year, no kidding.
20. -R- | October 29th, 2010 at 10:10 am

First, I don’t think anyone thinks they’re rich. It’s hilarious to me. This woman I know is in her late 60s and has millions of dollars and she talks about the “elites” and how snobby they are. Cracks me up. I know law firm partners who don’t think they’re rich because they have so many bills. But then they vacation at the Ritz Carlton in Hawaii.

Anyway, I did grow up rich. Not millions of dollars rich, but I had a trust fund that paid for all my college expenses (well, I was also on a full scholarship so I don’t know how long my trust fund would have lasted if I hadn’t been, but whatever). I still worked as a waitress when I was in college. And I didn’t have a fancy car, and I didn’t have fancy things. I knew people in college who had BMWs, and I thought is was kind of gross.

I had one friend in high school who would never invite me to her house because she was embarrassed that it was so much smaller than mine. I honestly didn’t care how big her house was, and it made me feel bad that she thought it mattered. But I had the luxury of not caring because I was the one with the nice house, so I can’t really put myself in her position.

I don’t care how much money people make; it doesn’t affect my judgment of them. I do dislike people who act entitled and snobby, but I find that people of all incomes act that way. However, I admit that there is a suburb here in the Twin Cities I would never move to because I think it’s super snobby. I have friends who live there who are nice and normal, but they tell me stories of their neighbors, and it just sounds yucky.
21. Erin | October 29th, 2010 at 10:11 am

I wanted to clarify that when I wrote “ashamed” above I meant “ashamed of the discrepancy between rich and poor” not that they should be ashamed of themselves just for having money.
22. Alias Mother | October 29th, 2010 at 10:28 am

I don’t want to get into it too much, because I’ve made strides in getting over it, but: yes. Same college experience. Same chip.

I was a first generation student, too. That added a nice level of cluelessness as well. You?
23. Deanna | October 29th, 2010 at 10:29 am

I grew up in a small town in the south, where probably 90% of us are somewhere in the middle class. There was one high school, and though we knew who the “rich” kids were, they generally hung out with everyone else anyway, maybe because there weren’t a lot of other options. We always had plenty of money to get by on, and I was a lot more fortunate than many kids I knew. I think part of it was that we lived in an unpretentious, relatively inexpensive house and drove sensible cars, so there was money for the other things we wanted to do. It was pretty easy to feel fortunate when I compared my family to my best friend, who couldn’t see a dentist or go to the doctor throughout high school because they didn’t have any insurance and couldn’t afford to pay for a visit.

I have a bit of a chip when it comes to education, especially as related to income. I have a master’s degree, and I get irrationally angry when people get these wonderfully cushy jobs with much less education (and often, truth be told, much less brainpower). I KNOW that sounds horrible, but I can’t help it. I feel like I am constantly defending my government job…not much pay, but honorable work and great perks. Which, by the way, is true, but why do I feel the need to continually remind myself?
24. kathleen | October 29th, 2010 at 10:50 am

I went to Syracuse as well, though I some managed to avoid the crazy money culture shock. I grew up in a small town in Washington where pretty much everyone made the same (lower middle class) income. I worked all though college, but very early on got involved with Syracuse’s social justice network. I knew I was surrounded by rich kids in class, but I spent the weekends out in the larger community, and it kept things in perspective. I think I lucked out in that way.

Now it’s different though- I’m a personal trainer, and work primarily with very wealthy stay at home moms. I train in their houses- and it’s always such a trip when I’m there along with the gardener, nanny and maid. I don’t know though, I also see that so many are trapped in some ways– they have grown accustomed to a lifestyle that they would not be able to sustain on their own. It’s affected a lot of how I’m dealing in my own life- I’m single, but I’m getting an MBA, and own my home. I don’t want to ever be unhappy in a relationship but able to leave because I can’t pay my own bills. You know? I know that’s a whole other conversation, but it colors how I see the Really Wealthy in my city (Atlanta).
25. Perpetua | October 29th, 2010 at 10:58 am

Oh my, doesn’t this just hit home. I went to grad school at a sub-ivy (after leaving a similar small town situation where we certainly weren’t Poor, but we were Just Okay). Anyway, I was TAing a class and an 18 year old casually puts her bag down in front of me, and it’s Prada. And that was the first time in my life I saw an honest to goodness Prada bag.

And I just sat there, like, whoa. Not in Small Town anymore, now am I? Luckily all my grad student friends were of means similar to mine, so we got to snort at the filthy rich undergrads and be all LIFE OF THE MIND POVERTY FTW.

But still. Scary people, those Rich.
26. agirlandaboy | October 29th, 2010 at 11:07 am

My college boyfriend also had a giant chip about money and he used to get all bent out of shape about MY family, who was not rich by any means but just really good at living within our means and saving up for trips and things, and I spent almost seven years telling him to Get Over It, Dude. Then after we broke up he hooked up with a girl whose family is R-I-C-H. He spent so much time at the country club with her father, actually, that she bought him a golf glove for Christmas one year. I still can’t get over how awesomely awful that is.

I went to jr. high and high school outside of my neighborhood, so although I knew who was wearing the trendy clothes, I didn’t really have any idea how people lived until mid-high school, when we all started going on dates (group dates, to each others’ houses, to watch G-rated movies, because: Mormons). I was completely taken aback when I realized that some of the kids I’d known for six or seven years had been living in giant mansions all this time. (It also suddenly made sense why some of the most vapid and mean kids were somehow popular.)

For me, there’s a huge difference between Rich Kids and Rich Adults, though. Rich Kids tend to take it for granted and be more unaware of how much they have (and unaware of how little others have in comparison). Rich Adults, though, have usually worked for their wealth to some degree (which isn’t to say that people who don’t have money don’t work their nuts off, of course), and that does make a difference to me, as people who are doing something to actually earn their money are generally more down-to-earth about it.
27. slynnro | October 29th, 2010 at 11:17 am

I have to add one remark- I see this often. People seem to think because you make a decision to buy something nice, go somewhere fancy, you are rich. Or maybe you JUST HAVE DIFFERENT PRIORITIES. I like my nice car and my fancy hotel, but I don’t have any children and I don’t own a home. Still not rich.

I know this is a bit off topic, but I guess it goes to people saying no one wants to call themsevles rich. To get to a point where I’d feel “rich” I would basically have to find myself in a position where I have long term financial security. I don’t have that now, even if I do have some things that people with that kind of security also have. I have an idea of where things are headed financiallyf or me, so I feel comfortable doing/buying certain things, but I also have an understanding that if I got fired/my husband lost his job, that’d be out the window faster than you can say unemployment.

THESE ARE MY ISSUES APPARENTLY.
28. Gaby | October 29th, 2010 at 11:19 am

Ack! You are completely correct, Jonna, that the decision (or lack thereof) to stay at home is way more complex than simply having or not having money. I totally don’t want to make it seem that I think all SAHMs are rolling around in piles of money with their children, Scrooge McDuck-style, because, no, not at all.

My comment is absolutely coming from my personal situation which is simply: We don’t make enough money to even consider not having two full-time incomes, yet somehow we have all this “spare” cash for daycare, OMG. So, yeah, projecting much, Gab?

Thanks for being gentle in your reminder of the many realities associated with staying at home or not, because I can see now how my comment could’ve easily been filed under the Asshole column.
29. jonniker | October 29th, 2010 at 11:22 am

I think it’s really interesting to see how everyone perceives wealth, and how it impacts their reactions. Like, Leah, instead of being pissed at the people with money like your BF, I was irrationally disgusted with MYSELF. Which, uh, whoa makes no sense at all.

And Gaby, I didn’t think your comment was assholey at all. Not even a little. I meant it to point out that I, as a SAHM, have weird irrational issues around it, too. The grass, apparently, is always greener.
30. Leigh | October 29th, 2010 at 11:51 am

Hee-hee, as I’m reading this I realize that there are oh so many ways I feel not good enough around certain people and not rich enough is about fourth on the list.

It makes me angry when people take their privilege for granted, and for me that privilege takes many forms. A loving family, spouse, money, beauty, youth…

You see why I am insane. I’m in a bad place right now where my responsibilities outweigh my support by an unhealthy amount. I, like you, realize my resentments are totally my problem. Thanks for reminding me because on this particular morning I was on an express train to bitter old womanhood. I’m also glad you are posting more.
31. -R- | October 29th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

Slynnro, I agree that people who stay in nice hotels or have nice cars aren’t necessarily rich. And FYI, my husband drives a BMW, so it’s not like I’m saying that’s a bad thing. I think we probably just define “rich” differently. I think that my husband and I are probably rich in some people’s eyes. We have high incomes, though we also have lots of expenses.

I don’t think being rich or being perceived as rich is a bad thing. I don’t think owning expensive stuff is a bad thing. I think acting entitled and being snobby are bad things. Totally different, in my mind.
32. jonniker | October 29th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

I don’t think it’s gross for an adult to have a BMW. I DO think it’s kind of gross for an 18-year-old to have one, however. But that has nothing to do with money, and has to do with our culture of entitlement and how, COME ON, you bought your TEENAGER a NEW BMW?
33. -R- | October 29th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

Sorry for commenting repeatedly, but this discussion is so interesting to me! For example, my family belonged to a country club because both my parents and my sister played golf all the time. It wasn’t a big deal to me at all. I liked it because it was close and I could just walk to the pool by myself in the summer. I know there were snobby families who belonged there, but we just didn’t hang out with them. It never occurred to me that there were people who thought “ew, country clubs.” It doesn’t bother me at all; it’s just interesting.
34. jonniker | October 29th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

Also, R, you are one of the most down to earth people I know, so your additions are most welcome and interesting and prove the point that mostly it wasn’t them, it was me.
35. -R- | October 29th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

Yes, Jonniker, that was what I was trying to say in my earlier point about BMWs at college! Ok, I’ll stop commenting now, I swear!
36. Erin | October 29th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

I’m glad we can still hang even though I live in The Town With Shitloads of Money. Seriously. And I have nothing else to add other than I really liked this post.
37. Shin Ae | October 29th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

Well, I think you have an inkling I can relate, to a certain extent. My family had extra money, but not with a capital m. We consistently lived below our means, though, by my parents’ choice, which I think was very wise and for which I am now grateful. I lived in a TERRIBLE neighborhood, but went to private school always. I went to a very middle-class university, for which my father paid with no problems whatsoever.

I always watched friends spend lots of money, but knew that wasn’t for me, although I didn’t know why. It just felt uncomfortable. Still, I never felt like I didn’t belong among people with money UNTIL they provided me with gentle reminders. Repeatedly. And continue to do to this day. That miffs me. Anyway, now I feel uncomfortable around people with lots of money, and worried that they will be rude to me, because it has happened enough that I’m gun shy. Still, I am also very uncomfortable living in my current town, which I would describe as pretty poor. People here talk about money CONSTANTLY (totally awkward). I’ve gotten plenty of looks and comments if I don’t act poor enough. I can’t win.

I think about this a lot, actually. Complain within the four walls of my home. Etc.
38. Shin Ae | October 29th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

My comment does not help your issue. Sorry about that.
39. Michelle | October 29th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

I grew up in a town that has some very wealthy people and a reputation for being somewhat snobby. My family was very comfortable – we had a nice house, vacations, cars and things like that. My dad made all of his money himself and worked very hard to build his business. So maybe we had money with a little m? I would say that we were about average in my town – some people had more money than us, some had less.

Also, I inherited money from my great-grandmother when I was 10 that was just enough to pay for college and grad school.

When I was in grad school, I was embarrased to tell people that I was not getting financial aid or student loans. The first day when I was moving in, my rommate asked me if I got my student loan check in the mail yet. I didn’t know what to say!
40. Alyce | October 29th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

This is a fascinating topic for me and I have huge issues with money, too.

I lived with my mom most of the time and she was always poor. Worked multiple jobs, drove a mid-level used car (reliability was key), and found ways to stretch meals like no one’s business. Made my winter coat and my dress for my junior formal (it was hideous and satin). I went to a private high school on scholarship and worked in the kitchen and/or snack bar. I had a job outside the home (frozen yogurt) since I was 13 and a freshman (it was illegal for me to be working that young, but we didn’t know any better).

I moved in with my dad (and step-mom and step-sister) my senior year of high school under the threat that if I didn’t then he wouldn’t pay for me to go to college. He bought me a VW Golf, and I was no longer on scholarship. My status never changed – the kids at my high school and college were RICH whereas we were firmly middle class.

I struggle being poor (I lost my well-paying job 2+ years ago) and have been working part-time on 1/2 the salary. Peanut butter and jelly is my friend. And often my breakfast and lunch.

I am jealous of my boss who talks freely of her money, trips planned, 3rd car purchased, remodeling of her house, money she inherited, etc.

It’s full on envy.

And yet she is clueless that 90% of her coworkers at this not-for-profit are in the same boat I am. Broke, living paycheck to paycheck. They loathe her for it.
41. Home Sweet Sarah | October 29th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

Oh, money. Mo’ money mo’ problems, am I right?

I am not rich by any means, but have always been pretty well off and I’ve ALWAYS, since high school and college, gotten annoyed when people use the money excuse to not be able to do something.

I guess I just feel like all those cliches are right: Life’s too short! You can’t take it with you! and so I feel I’d rather be a little poor than give up going on a vacation or to a fancy dinner.

I understand this makes me an ass, and I know it’s one of those things that SHOULDN’T annoy me (for the better part of last year and into this year, I didn’t have a job and had to use this excuse myself at times [and god, I shouldn't even be using the word "excuse" - if you can't afford it, you can't afford it!, but you know, lack of a better word and all]) but it DOES bother me. Which, as I said, ass.
42. Sam | October 29th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

I, on the other hand, grew up without a clue about money. My parents were responsible about money (my dad was a warrant officer in the military and when he retired at 40, my mom went to work in a middle school office while he took up farming) and my mom was incredibly thrifty. I always felt bad when it was time to buy school clothes or anything like that, and I wish my parents would have have explained that it was no big deal, they budgeted for it and therefore had the funds necessary. They really never stumbled when it came to money until later, when they bought a house (a very normal, middle class house) and new furniture. I think they got a little too happy with credit cards, and it causes some issues later on when we had a bad season on the farm.

Seriously, though. I never knew what my parents made, and they never talked about money. I went to a small Southern Baptist college, which was expensive, but I was there with tons of preachers’ kids and missionary kids. Not very many people had money. My best friend did get an allowance of 40 bucks a week, and she was generous about paying for my lunch at the Mexican restaurant. We still laugh about that 40 bucks a week!

This will tell you just how clueless I am, still: I just now realized how much doctors make. And I almost fell out of my chair. I know they have lots of insurance to pay and also huge student loans, but STILL. Holy freaking moly. I was always so confused about all these moms I knew whose husbands were in their last years of residency. They had HOUSES and dressed really nice, and I was thinking, “How do they do that? Interns don’t get PAID, right?”
43. jonniker | October 29th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

Hm. Well, to some extent, I agree with you Sarah, in that there is a … cheapness to some people that can be frustrating, I think? I’m not sure. But also, it can be hard to stick to a budget if you have to be on one, and sometimes you just have to say no to things, which kind of blows. Like right now we’re on a strict budget so that we can save for some life stuff, and if I said yes to everything, we’d never get to those goals, you know?

In college, I really just flat-out didn’t have the money to do a LOT of things, so it wasn’t a question of being poorer, it was a question of just plain not having the money to do it at all.
44. Home Sweet Sarah | October 29th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

Now that I’ve reread my comment, I feel MORE like an ass, yay me!

I guess I should have pinpointed WHEN this annoys me. It annoys me for instances like weddings and stuff. When people (i.e.: my husband’s entire family) don’t come to our wedding because they can’t afford it. I guess I just feel that weddings are the type of things you just sort of have to make money for, you know?

So yes, I personally will forgo saving some cash to go on vacation or out to dinner, but it doesn’t annoy me if others can’t come along too.

If this makes sense…?
45. craftyashley | October 29th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

Growing up poor-ish we still had the elite circle. The ones who owned a BRAND NEW PAIR OF SHOES FROM PAYLESS! I look back at it now and laugh my socks off, but at the time, I really wanted those dang shoes! They were probably like $6, but no one else’s family was shoving that out for some terribly trendy crap shoes. Especially not my parents!
Now I am the opposite, We try really hard to keep the kids in affluent neighborhoods. Because looking back at living in the “ghetto,” I don’t want my kids to have the same experiences as I did. I remember a guy parking along the side of our playground and asking from his car if I wanted to come over and “have some candy.” I shrugged it off then and ran away of course. But hot darned! I AM NOT going to let that happen to my kids!

Sure. Down the line they are going to think we are positively ABUSING them if they don’t get Mercedes convertibles for their 16th birthdays. But I’ll be ok with that. At least when they grow up they will probably understand how unreasonable their requests were.
46. jonniker | October 29th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

LOL! Craftyashley, it’s funny, because I think there IS some middle ground between the ghetto and living in an area where your kids expect a Mercedes. In the Boston area, there is a ton of relative privilege, so we can do a really great neighborhood in a really great school system where my kids won’t expect a Mercedes because they’re friends are getting them too.

Sarah: Oof. That sucks. And I get where you’re coming from on that personal anecdote, and when I say the following, I am NOT saying it jerkily or defensively at all, just as …. well, it is what it is.

It’s hard to judge someone else’s financial priorities from the outside. I mean, if it were my FAMILY getting married, I would most definitely make time/money for it, but we have forgone five weddings in the last six or seven years because we couldn’t afford it, albeit according to our very subjective decision-making about what’s affordable and what’s a priority. Three of them were destination weddings (to the tune of at least $3k/pop), which, do not get me started, but two of them were weddings that were cousins, required a great distance of travel, which WOULD have been more than a thousand dollars total for each of them, and probably a lot more. And at the time, that money was earmarked elsewhere and we had no choice, despite appearing affluent.

And weirdly, but right now, unless it’s a close family member or a close friend, if the wedding isn’t local, we’re going to have to skip it, at least for this year. And to someone looking on the outside, that seems … jerky, especially since it looks like we have the money (and we do), but it’s earmarked elsewhere, and for pretty big deals, too. (not just vacations or fluffy stuff that, while important, is a luxury)

All that stuff — the wedding guilt, just going poorer for a little, etc. — kind of fell away when I had Sam and thought about a second kid. We don’t have the luxury of making those decisions anymore, really, because there is ALWAYS something super-important that we should/have to/desperately NEED to save for and/or account for.
47. Melanie Kerton | October 29th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

I know what you mean, I had a friend of drew’s over today and I had a really hard time with it, because I know they have lots more money, live in a brand new neighborhood, etc etc…. and here i am in my fixer upper with older furniture, feeling kind of embarrassed and that kills me! I truly don’t need to feel that way, it is what it is and I know they don’t care…. but why cant i get over it?
48. cheken | October 29th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

I didn’t mean to suggest you were one of the assholes. Just commiserating that asshole rich students YEAH! thing. Rereading my post I realized how jerky I sounded.

We were so broke because my mom was a student, perpetually, for the duration of our residency. I wonder if I ever checked your groceries at peter’s, heh. I ran as far and fast as possible, to deal with a whole new (southern!) crowd of rich jerks.

And SU *is* the good part of town

Well, except for the couple patches of projects nearby.
49. jonniker | October 29th, 2010 at 7:14 pm

HAHAHA, Cheken, when I lived off-campus (Euclid!), I awoke at 3 a.m. to a CRACKHEAD trying to open my window above my bed. He had no idea that he was trying to rob one of the poor students who had an old, broken rabbit-eared television and $5 in cash. HA HA.
50. H | October 29th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

Your post, as usual, is very interesting and I love to read the comments as your readers/commenters are always very thoughtful and have interesting points of view.

When I was young, it seemed most people lived like we did. I don’t know if I was completely unaware or if, in my small town, most of us were average middle class families. As an adult, I am more sensitive to financial issues because I am responsible for about 2/3 of our income. My husband is in sales and has had a few jobless spells. I feel constantly under the threat of a layoff and I have two kids in college. So, as you mentioned, Jonna, (comment 46), some may think we have more money to spend than *we* feel we do. Maybe our choices seem odd to others, I don’t know, but we’re desperately trying to get our kids through college with minimal loans. I hate hate hate hate having significant debt and I don’t want my kids to have significant debt if we can find a way to avoid it.

We try like hell to keep our priorities straight. Money isn’t everything. Our dear godchild is having a very small destination wedding in a few months and we’re making a lot of sacrifices to be able to pay for the trip. I think it is hard to make accurate judgments about other people’s financial choices unless you are privy to the details.

Back to the subject of your post, though, I can understand how your experiences have influenced your perspective today. I actually happen to know more people who are Wannabe Rich Snobs than Real Rich Snobs. They KILL me! A snob is a snob, Rich or not.
51. SwingCheese | October 29th, 2010 at 8:08 pm

So I went to a small, private college that has a mixed SES population, with a lot of working class students, and a lot of wealthy Chi-town suburbanites’ spawn who think they are working class. Once, while I was working at one of my two summer jobs, a friend of mine and I went out for lunch. And we stopped by the place of one of her other friends, someone I knew tangentially. And I ended up spending my lunch hour hearing about how “Everyone should take a summer off to tour with Phish”, and watching her smoke pot, all the while being subsidized by her wealthy parents.

This was 11 years ago, and I still get twitchy when I think about it. And I still can’t stand that woman.
52. Lindsay | October 29th, 2010 at 10:34 pm

My experience has been that class is not at all defined by a person’s (or their parents) money. Some of the classiest people I know are the richest people I know. And by classy I mean the way they treat all people with utmost respect and just always seem to listening and open minded, humble and filled with gratitude for their blessings.

What I see as a common thread in rich people (not their kids) is confidence. That’s the only thing I am envious of and trying to figure out.
53. Liz | October 30th, 2010 at 7:44 am

This is an interesting topic. I haven’t responded for a few days because I wasn’t quite sure what to say, or how I felt about it.

I went to a private school, but my brother’s did not. I’m the youngest, and by the time I came around, my parents could afford it, and ummmm, it became clear that I needed some extra structure (ahem).

The people at my school were Rich. Senator’s kids, the owner of local baseball team – kids with a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the winter and a Wrangler for the summer for their own personal use. That type of thing. I was embarrassed of telling people I went to that school, and when I’d meet people outside of school I would usually lie. I think I didn’t want them to respond to me the way that you’ve described in this post, Jonna – I didn’t want to be bucketed in a negative light because of it, even though I admit I get where the stereotypes come from.

(I still lie about it, in fact. I’m so hung up on not letting people I know I went to a fancy school that I just spent 30 seconds thinking about if I wanted to leave this comment anonymously so people wouldn’t know. Crazy! But still.)

We recently made the decision to move because we want to live in a place where we can more easily live on one salary, so that we have the option of having a stay at home parent. It was REALLY HARD to tell my friends that we were leaving because we can’t afford the lifestyle we want. I felt so ashamed and just… I don’t know, like I was admitting failure, or something, that I can’t afford to keep up. But I know it’s not failure, that we’re doing a smart thing, and it’s right for us, but man, was it a horrible feeling to be up front that we were leaving because it’s too expensive here. I know my friend’s aren’t judging me, but I still feel like … they can do it, so what did I screw up? Which is SO CRAZY because it’s not like we all have the same job, or industry, or background, or whatever.

I just occurred to me that I am basically embarrassed both of having money (lying about private school) and embarrassed for not having enough. Dude, that totally sucks!

My stepdaughter goes to school in a very wealthy school district, though her mother is not as well off as some of the families surrounding them. When she was younger (8ish), she really carried with her the weight of not being rich like her friends -we’re talking private plane and house in the Hamptons rich – she knew she was different, and she was ashamed of it. It broke my heart, and I hate that she feels left out or less than her peers in any way, but at the same time I know we’re doing the best we can for her and I hope that when she is out of the madness of middle school she’ll be grateful she was in such a good school district and not pissed because she was so different, money wise, than her peers.

Anyway, good times.
54. Artemisia | October 30th, 2010 at 10:43 pm

Oh, how this resonates with me.

Money is so complicated, isn’t it? I work at a state university, and find myself so effing disgusted when I see an 18-year-old pull up to campus in a Lexus SUV. I think, “entitled lillte f*ck.” what the hell? No one deserves to be thought of like that. And yet.

Then I feel horrible. But validated, somehow. WHAAAT??

Anyway, oh my. I could go on and on. What is this all about?
55. KATIE.H | October 31st, 2010 at 8:42 am

i’ve only read to comment #21, but i have to say, has anyone wondered what debt others have? the ones people are so envious of? while they may be living in large houses and driving brand new cars, you just dont know what debt people carry.the grass is not always greener. i know it is hard to think that, but it is true. and im not saying anyone wants what the others have, but it is food for thought.
56. KATIE.H | October 31st, 2010 at 8:50 am

i’ve know finished reading the comments. i received a brand new BMW when i graduated from high school. i know everyone has their opinion, but just bc i got a bmw doesnt make it an a$$hole decision on my parents part. we were part of the upper middle class (i guess) and my parents worked hard (whose dont?). you have to remember, you have a car payment that comes along with that car! it isnt free. and this car came from parents who grew up poorer (my mom) and a dad who worked since he was 15 or 16. maybe some parents want for their children what they couldnt have?
57. jonniker | October 31st, 2010 at 8:55 am

Katie, I’m sure that’s where a lot of that thinking comes from, but it doesn’t mean that as a parent, it’s the same decision I would make.
58. Christine | October 31st, 2010 at 9:29 am

Oh I have this same chip, I’m sad to say. And I grew up, it seems more comfortably than you and the majority of the population, but you see, we were successful, but not in comparison to most of my neighbors. Until the age of 19 my father owned and ran a car repair/gas place, and then lost it. That said, I grew up in a town of cardiologists’ kids who made me acutely aware that I wasn’t wearing the new Gap Jeans. I know a kid who got when he turned 17 was gifted with a brand new BMW. When I turned 16 I was gifted with an 8 year old Dodge Shadow that my father bought off someone for $100 in the ghetto where his shop was (Irvington, NJ – Holla!). I drove that for years, until it died, and I was given another older Dodge Shadow. Even now, I’ve never owned a new car. It’s kind of funny to me showing up in my older beat up PT Cruiser to events with attorneys where they’re driving BMWs and whatever else. But the thing is? I’m comfortable, and I would rather go on vacation or save, then buy a new car that I park on the street anyway. And later on I plan on raising any kids I might have so that they need to work for something. I think doing so will prevent them from becoming douchey. I may give my kid a car, but hell if it’s going to be new, and hell if they aren’t going to have to pay for their own insurance. You know?
59. Christine | October 31st, 2010 at 10:30 am

Oh and for Katie, I know that the BMW has become something of a sign of wealth in the comments, but I just want to say my friend who was gifted his BMW at 17, was really very very nice. And while I grew up middle class in a rich neighborhood, my husband who grew up POOR, like slept on two chairs pushed together when he was three because they didn’t have a bed for him, and sleeping on the floor would have exposed him to too many roaches Poor, is all for buying a kid of ours a newer, nicer car than I would be inclined to do, because he certainly never received that from his parents.

So while I *get* it, I have also seen the flip side to feeling entitled, you know like that ten year old who commented on my shoes in what, fifth grade, “Do you wear those because you like them? or because that’s what you can afford?” I mean, c’mon. I was TEN. And I was probably wearing them because they were off brand, but because I liked them too. Gah.
60. KATIE.H | October 31st, 2010 at 4:05 pm

i think there is some bias against kids who do receive a new car as a graduation present, etc. i know when i received mine, other students werent as friendly after i received it (i didnt brag about it, i was a new student my senior yr at the high school). i was a nice kid, still am a nice adult. i get why people may want to be mean or not like kids who get nice things, but as long as the kid is a nice person, why be mean to them/not like them? no one likes it when some one is mean to a person bc they are poor, right?
and for jonna not wanting to gift their child a car or whatever just because they didnt have that opportunity…im sure the situation will come up where you may have not had something as a child, but want yours to. a bmw may be extreme in your case, but still…also for other posters who say they want their kids to work for what they have (as if childrent who are gifted bmws at 18 do not), i dont think that is always the case. i worked at a summers during college like most kids do. i really dont know why im defending this…to make sure readers know that just because someone has nice things or opportunities you didnt have, doesnt make them a jerk. someone may be envious of you bc you got to go to syracuse while they had to go a school they didnt necessarily want to bc they couldnt get a lot of financial aid. its all relative.
61. jonniker | October 31st, 2010 at 4:58 pm

Katie, I think your point is … the point of my whole post? That any bias I have is my problem, not theirs? I’m not speaking for any relativity or defending anyone who is or isn’t rich or … anything, really, except explaining my own bias and that it’s my problem, not theirs. I think most of the commenters were saying the same thing, so you reallly don’t have to defend yourself here. No one was mean to anyone, rich kids included. Really.

To many people, I’m super rich now. To many other people I’m still poor. That’s just the way it is.

As for the BMW-buying, I personally wouldn’t buy my teenager a BMW under any circumstances. But! I would do a lot of other things other parents wouldn’t do and vice versa and that’s why I’m grateful I get to raise my kids and you guys all get to raise yours. We’re all just doing the best we can.
62. Suebob | October 31st, 2010 at 11:06 pm

I grew up lower-middle class and somehow my parents managed to instill us with the notion that money doesn’t matter. What matters is what kind of person you are – are you kind, honest, hard-working, treat people with respect? Then you’re okay. If you aren’t those things, it doesn’t matter if you have $1 in your pocket or a million. That was drilled into me, and I’m so glad it was.

Cut to me beginning to date my ex. He was SO status-conscious. He immediately summed people up by their clothing, their accessories, their cars and their homes. He sliced and diced our neighborhood and new exactly the price of homes on every street.

I can’t believe, really, that I was over 40 when I finally learned about people like this. I had managed to mostly avoid it my whole life, probably because I stayed in my state college town after graduation, where the playing field was fairly level and where people lived for the lifestyle and not for status.

But it freaked me out that people could be so judgmental and crazed about money on a moment-to-moment basis. It honestly chagrined him that I liked to shop at thrift stores and that jewelry meant nothing to me. He could NOT believe me when I suddenly realized that one of my friends growing up had been quite poor – he lived in this condo that was shabby and crowded – though when we were growing up, I never judged. It was Chris’s family’s home and it was fun and creative over there. It wasn’t until I met my ex that I looked back in judgment, because he taught me what being judgy was all about. Weird that it took so long. I’m trying to forget that people like him exist.
63. Jen | November 1st, 2010 at 8:32 am

I remember being jealous of one of my closest friends in high school because her dad drove a Lexus and they lived in one of the nice, new neighborhoods in town (as compared to our boring split level in a kind of shady neighborhood).

Then I realized that the salon her parents owned barely pulled in enough money for the bills. So while my sister and I were able to play on several sports teams and travel the country for tournaments and camps, she and her sisters only got to visit the same vacation spot three hours away for a long weekend once a summer.

Thankfully, this allowed me to learn a valuable lesson at a young age. Sure, there are people who can afford nice houses and nice cars and still have plenty of money to spoil their kids … but I think there are more “wealthy” people out there like my friend’s family than you’d think, whose wealth is more smoke-and-mirrors than anything else.

I don’t know where I was really going with this comment – but I guess that reminding myself of all of this helps when I start to feel inadequate??
64. TheOneTrueSue | November 1st, 2010 at 11:04 am

I can relate to Gabby. For a long time (8 years) I worked from home but because of This Freaking Economy I’m now working in an office and I’m just completely irrationally jealous of my SAHM friends. I realize that many of them are sacrificing to be at home, that many of them wish they COULD find something that would make sense when you play the income vs. daycare game, etc., but I don’t care. I’m just jealous and it’s hard for me to be around them without feeling extremely (also irrationally) sorry for myself.

I have so many issues surrounding money and most of them I can attribute pretty directly to jealousy. And feeling cursed.

I grew up poor, poor, poor (nine kids, a stay at home mom, clothes from the thrift store, food from the church) and always swore My Kids Would Never (wear second hand clothes, have to skip braces, drive old cars, pay for their own college, what-have-you).

For a long time we were making that work – nice house, nice cars, nice boat, all paid for. And then the economy fell apart and so did our business and suddenly it didn’t work anymore. Now we’re both working and rebuilding and we’re driving dodgy cars and renting a house (and I have about a million issues with that, because I feel like all of our neighbors are judging us for being renters, which whatever, they ARE).

Now I’m all about spreadsheets and budgeting and quality time. And I’m resentful of my friends with money, even though it isn’t their FAULT for having money, I just resent that we hit a patch of extremely bad luck and they didn’t. WHYYYY MEEEEEE. Misery loves company. In short, I’m afraid I’m sort of becoming familiar with this chip of which you speak.
65. halloweenlover | November 1st, 2010 at 3:29 pm

I had been wondering about this very topic because of a tweet you posted the other day about going grocery shopping in super-rich town and being disgusted. I kept thinking about what you wrote, since I think I can guess which super-rich town you were talking about, and wanted more details. Funnily enough, I think your town IS super-rich. Probably because I know a couple of law firm partners who lived there in mega-mansions.

I grew up super duper poor- terrible neighborhood, tiny rented apartment with roaches, paycheck to paycheck poor. The apartment building was like the United Nations, you know? But my parents applied to and got me full scholarships at excellent private schools, and then my mom got a job just specifically to pay for the other expenses of school, while my dad waited tables.

I was horrified in high school because I’d have to clean the bathrooms and pick up trash around the school as part of my work-study to pay for school, but at the same time, I graduated valedictorian of my class and firmly believed that money doesn’t mean shit if you don’t know how to work hard.

College was fine because I was far from home and no one knew my financial situation (even though I was on full scholarship) and I had 3 jobs to pay for the J. Crew clothes everyone had. My friends were probably middle class to upper middle class, but just regular people, not snobby at all. I guess when I look back I was kind of embarrassed, and definitely sad to not have the money to fly home to CA to visit my parents, but to be honest, I didn’t think about it much. I just focused on studies and having fun.

And then I met my would-be husband, who invited me to Paris for a week when we’d been dating for 3 months, and who’d grown up vacationing in Aspen and the Swiss Alps and drove a new SUV and paid for me to go to Cancun for our senior year trip. He has no hang-ups about money, because I guess money was never an issue for him, and he wasn’t snobby about it because his parents raised him to value money.

Now we live in uber-rich town, in a modest house, and I see both sides of the coin. I refuse to be jealous of people with more because like one commenter said, people carry around all kinds of crazy debt and make choices to live above their means and might be miserable on the inside, regardless of what their outside looks like. I know we are richer than 99% of the world’s population, and I won’t let myself worry about more expensive cars or bigger houses or nicer clothes. We have enough, and I have this amazing family, and I don’t want to be caught up in this rat race for more more more. But I do get sort of outraged when I see my friends drive cars that cost 100K or when my SIL talks about how she is going to buy one kid a Lexus and the other an Acura when they turn 16. Mainly because I am opposed to that kind of conspicuous consumption, or those kinds of values, regardless of whether you have the money or not.

I want my kids to have everything I didn’t (and truthfully they already do) but I also want them to grow up level-headed. All of this is my long-winded way of saying, I get it.
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68. Sarahviz | November 2nd, 2010 at 9:18 am

I grew up in a VILLAGE (fer crissakes!) in upstate podunk NY. We had one flashing yellow light in town. No McDonalds. Bordering on Amish country.

And I got a scholarship to attend (Hobart and) William Smith College. Land of prep schoolers, trust funds and Saabs.

I know exactly what you mean. I still have a Chip on my shoulder about money.

Jeezus, when ARE we going to meet?!
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70. Tammie | November 4th, 2010 at 6:35 am

I’ve been thinking about this since I read it. Was going to comment and then realized I would be writing an entire post in your comments, so I wrote my own.

Thanks for this, it’s been awhile since I’ve been fired up enough about anything to write.
71. Annie | November 5th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

I went to a small private liberal arts school and was very fortunate to go for free. I remember when I was a junior I was volunteering with Big Brothers Big Sisters and my little asked me how much tuition was and I was totally mortified that I didn’t know. I went home and looked it up and that’s when I realized how RICH most of my friends’ families were… Only a couple of my friends were on financial aid. Most of them had parents write checks once a semester. Paid in full. I had never had MONEY put into perspective that way before and I’ve never been the same since. It’s like someone spilled the money glitter and now it’s all stuck in the creases of my brain.
72. Mauigirl | November 16th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

Catching up here…thought this post was very interesting. I think this happens to a lot of us who go off to college. In my case, I purposely chose a college with no sororities (a women’s college at that) because I didn’t want to have to deal with the whole figuring out which sorority I’d belong to and deal with being rejected from one, etc. What I discovered was, not only were a lot of people richer than I was, but they all went to much better high schools and knew much more about what colleges were “good” and what weren’t, than I ever did. I realized that I was coming from a very sheltered background! But it’s all good, because it exposed me to a lot of different people with different backgrounds. And the good thing about my school was there were also plenty of people who were less rich or educated than I was too, so I wasn’t completely an oddball.
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75. Dave | December 21st, 2010 at 4:55 pm

I’ve been reading lately that formative experiences with money carry through one’s life. Self-fulfilling in our culture. People used to having money tend to associate with people used to having money, whence they have money.

Likewise, those continually on the run for the rent often, nearly always, *never* outgrow this. Education, experience, none of it matters.

RIch I don’t have an issue with. Self-entitlement, I do have an issue with. Long term, self-entitlement, “don’t mind if I do help myself to what I want whenever I want” results in a tragedy of the commons. Those not operating with self-entitlement suffer first and most.

By self-entitlement, I mean the attitude that ordinary behavior, such as obeying traffic signals, apply to other people, not to oneself.

And moral hazard, unlike wealth, does indeed trickle down.
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