37 Comments Add your own

• 1. MaggyD  |  July 28th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

  Oh, how I love the stealth migraine. and then it follows me around for the next week. good times….
  I wish I knew about parenting effort in re: parenting outcomes. I’m a slacker parent myself, in that I let my kids entertain themselves and don’t run multiplication tables on the walk to school. I have been blessed with two of the best kids ever, but if this is because of my parenting or my genes or their temperaments or dumb luck, I don’t know. And I, too, worry about my kids doing reprehensible things, because the people who do reprehensible things are someone’s kids.
  My mother(!) told me that I was a good mother. My reply? “I’ve got good kids.” I always say I don’t know how I got such good kids. I am perplexed but grateful.
  now that I’ve hijacked your comments, am I first? Also, I love your use of “salacious,” especially in reference to housing.

• 2. Dr. Maureen  |  July 28th, 2011 at 11:26 pm

  My theory is that we are blessed with a great kid, all we can do is not screw it up. That’s what I think happened to us. I think we got lucky with a couple of awesome, lovable little people, and we have successfully avoided turning them into hateful monsters. At least so far. Is this making any sense?

  I’m trying to say that I’ve thought about this a lot! How much can parenting do? I think everyone is a result of nature and nurture both, and thus a bad childhood does not excuse you from behaving like a decent person as an adult, because everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions at some point. But attachment disorder is a real thing, you know? So what we’re doing does matter.

  And those poor people in Wayland. My heart breaks for both families.

• 3. meanliving  |  July 29th, 2011 at 12:39 am

  When I was visiting family, my sister started taking loads of credit for how her daughter, who is her only child and is three, is turning out so well and how my sister does such a great job teaching her and responding to her and blah blah blah. My sister is a fine parent, she does JUST FINE. And yet? I hate the implication there.

  I have an EXTREMELY challenging six-year-old (firstborn) son. Most of the time, he is an obnoxious pain in everyone’s ass. And of course I love him dearly and try to steer him along a path of non-jerkitude. HOWEVER. He is also super easy on many issues that make other parents twitchy: he eats anything you put in front of him and he was fully potty-trained by his second birthday. Can I take full credit for these successes (“Oh, he always just ate what we were eating!” “I used only cloth diapers and introduced him to the potty when he was six months old!”)? NO. The truth is that he just doesn’t care about food and that when he was little he didn’t like peeing on his feet so learned that going in the potty was more pleasant.

  You can’t take credit for the good and you can’t take blame for the bad. And I try so super hard to make sure that I don’t make any stupid-ass comments like my sister regularly makes. My kids wins are his own wins, but I’ll try to split the failures with him.

• 4. meanliving  |  July 29th, 2011 at 12:43 am

  Oh! And also, I toss this article out whenever it’s even vaguely relevant because it really seems to make sense to me. It’s interesting and hopeful for those of us with kids who make us crazy. It helps me think that maybe all my effort won’t be wasted on this kid that has been tricky from the get-go.

  http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/the-science-of-success/7761/

• 5. JCF  |  July 29th, 2011 at 2:02 am

  My kids are 3, 2, and 1, so I can offer no long term perspective here. However, when my second was born, a woman I know who has grown kids gave me a bit of wisdom that has carried me through a lot. She said “the gift of the second child is perspective.” All that stuff you patted yourself on the back for with your first kid? It probably won’t repeat. And the stuff you beat yourself up over? You will realize that a lot of it is just the kid, and not your fault.

  My first was a HORRIBLE sleeper for the first year, and I wept over my inability to teach him to fall asleep on his own many times. I was also surrounded by other first time moms who swore they taught their kids to sleep through the night by 8 weeks. I felt like such a terrible mom for being unable to do the same. When my second was about 10 days old, she fell asleep on my bed while I stepped out of the room to throw a diaper away. And lo, she knew how to fall asleep on her own from there on (because I taught her with my awesome mom skills!!! Right…). I cried out of total relief and absolved myself of all guilt for messing up my firstborn. As time goes by, I realize more and more that he is extremely suborn and difficult in so many ways. He is also way too smart for his own good, and I fear the future with him. But if I didn’t have two other kids to compare him to, I would probably still be beating myself up over every other thing with him, thinking I was responsible.

• 6. A.  |  July 29th, 2011 at 8:35 am

  I think it’s definitely a little of both. My child has stranger danger and isn’t too much of a dare devil and I think it’s because the two people who made him were the same way as kids and so he came out that way. However, I think if you DON’T do the time outs and the basic parenting of manners and good behavior, you could end up with a kid who doesn’t know how to act in public for life. So, how you behave as a parent matters there.

  However, this teenager in MN recently shot and killed two people. On purpose. He confessed that he did it on purpose. And when they interviewed his mom, she said from the day he was born he was trouble. (And not in a mean way; she was at the end of her rope upset about it.) She ran a daycare in their home and had to close it because her son, from the moment he could walk, beat up the other kids. She found him at 1 and a half on a coffee table ready to jump on an infant he placed below him. To me, I don’t think there was anything she could’ve done. He came out THAT way.

  So, just do your best? Who the heck knows.

  (I know you weren’t talking about me when you’re mentioning your friend Amanda, but for my self-esteem, I’m going to pretend you were. )

• 7. danish  |  July 29th, 2011 at 9:12 am

  My husband is the sweetest, most loving, most honest, most emotionally available man I’ve ever been with.

  His father is a class A jerk. Cheater, liar, son of a gun.

  His mother is a text book narcissist, and can be a supreme bitch.

  How my husband spawned from these two, I will never know.

• 8. SwingCheese  |  July 29th, 2011 at 9:19 am

  When it comes to kids, I think they’re more resilient than we give them credit for. Not that we, as parents, don’t make a difference – of course we do. As a previous poster mentioned, one must do time outs, etc., in order to properly socialize their child. But for the most part, I think it depends on your overall view of your child. I approach parenting from the idea of enjoyment. My child is generally a good kid, I’m generally a good parent, and we’re generally going to have a good day. When my husband comes home from work, I regale him with the cute/funny actions of our son (he works second shift, and kiddo is in bed by the time he gets home). I’m not Polyanna, and my son is 2 1/2, so we definitely have our days. But overall, he’s a good kid and an easy kid, in my mind.

  I think that when we see “good kids gone bad”, it’s kind of like seeing the divorce of the heretofore presumed “happy marriage”. None of us really know what’s going on in someone else’s family behind closed doors, and that goes for parenting skills, too. My aunt & uncle would have seemed to be a “good family”, and yet my parents witnessed my uncle taking a belt to his sons (my dad intervened and was told by his own father to mind his own business) and my aunt shutting her 3 year old daughter in a dark closet where the “bad things” were, for behavior that was standard 3 year old behavior. And yet? Most people would never have seen this and would wonder why my cousins want nothing to do with their parents. So I tend to think that there are usually circumstances that we don’t know about.

• 9. Li  |  July 29th, 2011 at 9:23 am

  Its a big fat f’ing mystery. “make sure they know they are loved; model kind behavior and empathy; and cross your fingers.” that’s my strategy.

• 10. Danielle  |  July 29th, 2011 at 10:17 am

  Ok, usually I am just a bystander on this blog, but I feel like I have to comment on this one.
  I had an awful upbringing. AWFUL. Every type of abuse you can think of, broken home, food stamps, bi-polar mother, BLAH BLAH.
  I like to think of myself as a success story- Basically, that I finished high school, and got my ass out of dodge. Started working, got a really nasty place, etc. Now, I am almost 30, married to an unbelievable guy, have a great apartment, great city job, great friends, etc. Toot toot, and all that.
  I guess what I am trying to say is that I think that at the end of the day, you make your own future, no matter where you came from. At some point, it becomes up to you, you know? Parents can only get you so far.
  And while yes, I would have loved to have the childhood that you and Adam are providing for Sam, I learned from the bad. It made me able to withstand almost anything. It’s really sad that some kids have to grow up that way, but the world is not that great of a place all the time.
  God, this was long. Sorry! Apparently I have THINGS TO SAY.

• 11. MP  |  July 29th, 2011 at 10:18 am

  I secretely gave myself such an absurd amount of credit for my first child — she is lovely and sweet and smart and gorgeous. She is a little lady. She sits through a whole dinner at a fancy restaurant! She always follows the rules! She’s my perfect, little snowflake and I alone was responsible for that…well, that’s what I thought until her sister was born and then oh boy did the imaginary hand of whomever reach down from the heavens and give me a giant smack in the face. My second is…well, a pistol. She’s a pistol. She’s defiant and sassy and if she could give me the finger when I remind her about the rules, I’m sure she would. She’d raise that tiny, middle finger in the air and tell me to suck it. I now have no doubt in my mind that my childrens’ personalities have nothing in the world to do with how we are raising them (and I’d like to think we’re doing ra really good job), but instead, this is just who they are to the core of their being.

  And yes, I realize that I was willing to take credit for all of the greatness of the first, and unwilling to take responsibility for the defiance of the second, but, I think it’s more due to the perspective of haivng a second. I worried about tons of stuff with my first — is she too shy, is she too timid, am I making her worried about the world? My second, while a pistol, is the most social, daring, wild, fun, tiny party girl you could hope to meet. She’s just fun! My first didn’t sleep and I whipped myself over it thinking that there was something I was doing wrong. My second, slept through the night at nine weeks, this has nothing at all to do with anything I did/didn’t do.

  All this to say, I do my best and my husband does his best to instill in them a set of values (it’s wrong to hurt people, being polite is mandatory, make your own decisions, etc), but their moment to moment behavior and personalities are out of our hands.

• 12. Carrie  |  July 29th, 2011 at 10:29 am

  Hi! I’ve never commented before but had to on this post because I think about this same thing SO MUCH! Like everyone above I think it’s a little of both…what we do as parents absolutely matters, but the personality of your kid also makes a HUGE difference. Not only does it make a difference in how they respond to our parenting, but it also makes a huge difference in HOW WE PARENT.

  My oldest son is struggling with learning his letters (he’s 5 and starting kindergarten in Sept., just to clarify that I’m not trying to push my 2 year old to learn letters or something) and it is a huge struggle to get him to do anything related to learning and writing letters…even when it is FUN! WITH PRIZES! Before I had kids I just *knew* that I would work with my child at least 30 minutes a day on reading/writing b/c, of course, I was going to be the perfect mother. Well, I admit, some days I am just not up for the fight. And on the days I am? I am lucky if my son maintains interest for 10 minutes.

  My younger son (3 years old), on the other hand, loves earning letters. He likes to practice writing and ASKS TO DO LETTER WORKSHEETS. Had this happened with my first child, I probably would have patted myself on the back thinking this was because of my superior parenting skills. However, I’ve learned that it’s easy to do the *right* things to foster and encourage your kids when they want to do something and give you positive reinforcement with what you are doing.

  I believe that no matter how hard we try, we are all going to screw up our children in some way unintentionally (Hello Dad, I still cannot eat tapioca pudding b/c you said it was fish eyes!). We can do our best but at the end of the day, even though our kids are a part of us, they are individuals with their own ideas, emotions and reactions. We do our best to help them become the best they can be, but they have the ultimate control in who they become. Scary!

• 13. motherofperfection  |  July 29th, 2011 at 10:30 am

  You can tell by my “name” that I’m taking full credit for my wonderful kid(s). As Jonniker’s ma, you need to know that I (obviously) did everything right; showed them the right way; instructed them on everything they would EVER need to know in the way of the world; never needed to “cross my fingers and hope for the best” because I knew they would turn out perfectly. And of course they did. All because of me.

  Am I the funniest stand-up you ever heard???

  But seriously: the bottom line is that we need to love our kids more than life itself. After that, let God take care of it–He has more experience.

  And BTW, J, you are right….we still worry about you. It doesn’t change anything, but we do. Gives me something to do in my off hours. :>) Love you !

• 14. Crystal_m_k  |  July 29th, 2011 at 10:45 am

  Awww. Your mom! See, that’s why you turned out pretty great. She loved(s) you!!

• 15. Life of a Doctor's Wife  |  July 29th, 2011 at 10:47 am

  You know, I take a great deal of comfort in this post. If someone who is clearly a dedicated and loving parent like you are has these worries, well, maybe someday I can do it too.

  But seriously, I don’t even HAVE a kid and I worry about the murderer thing. How do you prevent that?!? (How horribly sad.)

  And have you seen the sibling sets where one sibling is wonderful and perfect and the other is just a pure terror? That can’t be the parenting, right? I mean, can you parent two kids THAT differently?

  My (totally unfounded) opinion is that you just do the best you can and hope that some of it rubs off.

• 16. Kris Taylor  |  July 29th, 2011 at 11:49 am

  You’re mom is awesome! And pretty funny too

• 17. Lynn  |  July 29th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

  When I was a teenager I asked my aunt, who had a five and three year old, to tell me all her parenting secrets. Her kids were so polite and well-behaved and sweet and smart. And she said, “I really have no idea, it just happened,” and that was a huge watershed moment for me.

  I think you try to be there for your kid and know that you’ve got they’re back. But the rest of it is just luck.

• 18. Lynn  |  July 29th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

  CANNOT believe I just used “they’re” instead of “their.” I AM ASHAMED.

• 19. SwingCheese  |  July 29th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

  @meanliving: thank you for that link, that was an interesting article! I now want to discuss it with someone

  @Life of a Doctor’s Wife: I’ve seen that, too. And yes, you can parent kids that differently. In high school, I dated the “problem child” (his parent’s label), who worked about 30 hours a week, went to school every day, did whatever his parent’s yelled at him to do, and generally just tried to stay out of their way so they wouldn’t yell at him. Meanwhile, his younger brother, the “golden child” (also “the smart one”, and don’t even get me started on that!) who was coddled and given the benefit of the doubt at every turn was selling drugs out of his bedroom and eventually arrested for breaking into cars. I know his parents see the differences between the two boys (well, men, I guess, they’re in their 30s) now, but I don’t know if they realize the difference their early-on labeling made in their sons’ lives.

  (Sorry for the multiple posts. Nature v. nurture FASCINATES me and I love to see what others have to say on it.)

• 20. jonniker  |  July 29th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

  HAAA. Oh, MOM. I love you, too. And you did do well, because while I think at this age it’s personality, the more I think about it, I got a lot of the values I have now from learning from my parents. So I’m with nature to a point, but also not discounting the value of nurture, particularly as kids grow into teenagers and young adults who have the intellectual capacity for moral understanding.

  You know, AFTER they’ve finished blowing off their curfew, telling their mother they hate her, and dating a guy way too old for her. (CHASTELY, I must add, to protect my 14 yo self) (Yes 14.) (OMG)

  Everyone give my mom a big hug, because I gave this woman a run for her damn money.

• 21. Amy {Frugan}  |  July 29th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

  There was recently a kid in Florida who killed both his parents and I had to tell my husband about it immediately because OMG what if our daughter grows up to KILL US? After all the hugging I’ve given! Ridiculous thought, I know.

  I am of the belief that kids are very, very different and that they come out basically the way they are going to be, unless you step in and interfere in a major way (good or bad). My daughter as a 2.5-year-old has so much of the same personality as the newborn she was.

  She’s not an EASY kid, although she is of course awesome and extremely lovable, so I am a little overly sensitive to the words “good” and “bad”. The idea of a “good” baby being one that doesn’t cry or fuss is so prevalent and it ruffles the feathers of this mother to a colicky girl. She has never been easy, but in my opinion she is deeply good. I KNOW you had a crier to, so I’m not saying you’re implying this, just reflected on it again. My toddler is intense and throws some whopping tantrums, but also so sweet and loving. (sorry, tangent)

  Anyway, I think we can take credit for creating a safe environment, a loving home, for trying to avoid situations you know will bring out the worst, and for part of the personality and behavior. The rest is just the way they are.

  Regarding the performance review, all I wanted yesterday evening was for someone to tell me I was a good mother, after trying to handle a really hard tantrum in the best way I could. Ultimately, I had to try and convince myself, which might have been why I had trouble falling asleep.

• 22. Kris Taylor  |  July 29th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

  Ugh “Your” correcting my typo from earlier *hangingheadinshame*

• 23. HollyLynne  |  July 29th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

  Really glad I’m not the only one who is too lazy to get up to pee. 5am is usually when I cave and stumble into the bathroom too.

• 24. Penny  |  July 29th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

  All kids are wired differently. My siblings and I are VERY different as are each of my 3 children. I do believe you can set a moral compass, and there is learned social behaviors on what is expected and accepted. A little luck is involved
  They say pesonalities are set by the age of 5 or 6.
  I DO belive that if you see issues they must be addressed head on. How many people are in denial with their kids issues? If a child has anger management issues ( I am not talking a toddler’s tantrum) When a kid is over the age of 5, in school and can not deal with his/her anger, it is time for out side help. Many parents ignore this!!
  I don’t think the 18 yr old who shot his girlfriend never showed a sign something was off……my heart breaks for his and her parents. BUT CLEARLY he had a problem.

• 25. agirlandaboy  |  July 29th, 2011 at 6:56 pm

  It’s luck, man. You get what you get and you do the best with that, and then you just hope your kid doesn’t grown up to kill ANYONE, least of all YOU. That’s what I’m doing anyway!

  (I don’t take too much credit for my kid’s personality and behavior I think because he spends so many of his waking hours at daycare. I know the influence of a parent is bound to weigh heavier than the influence of a care provider and/or his peers there, but, I dunno, I guess I’m just glad he doesn’t stay home with me all day because I think I’d be more likely to wonder if every little thing I do is either bettering or spoiling him forever and ever.

• 26. Robin  |  July 29th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

  You know, I think the great majority of personality is inborn, and as an outsider looking in, we can’t make much of a meaningful judgment about what’s good/bad parenting vs. personality. But I do think we as parents can know when we’re doing a good job. When my son listens to me even though I can tell he doesn’t want to, when he’s brave enough to try something that I know makes him a little nervous, when he does something that’s really mentally challenging for him, even though it might not be for another child. So I think we do have moments when we can see that we’ve helped our children, that we’ve done something right. It’s just not always easy to figure out what’s happening with someone else, and I tend to give other parents the benefit of the doubt unless I see some really questionable parental behavior accompanying bad kid behavior.

• 27. Annie  |  July 31st, 2011 at 10:29 pm

  You’re the fourth person I have heard of having a stealth migraine this weekend (and we do not live in the same parts of the country), me included. Un.cool.

  I have basically a dissertation length post about nature versus nurture, but it would bore everyone to tears. Long story short? In my opinion, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree and that’s due to nature AND nurture. But there are always those exceptions, just like everything else in life!

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• 29. Jen  |  August 2nd, 2011 at 10:47 pm

  I think about this ALL THE TIME. Like, I worry that one off-handed comment or sentence is going to scar Maggie for life and make her mean or spiteful or need therapy later or something (OR A MURDERER. heh)

  But like Dr Maureen said, it’s probably mostly that we’re all given pretty awesome little people, and it’s just our job not to screw them up too much. A tall order, I suppose.

• 30. MegglesP  |  August 3rd, 2011 at 9:27 pm

  This fascinates me and I don’t even have kids yet. As one of four kids, and a twin, it amazes me how different I am from my twin sister and two brothers. Both brothers had addiction issues and one just absolutely boggles my mind. He has no moral compass at all! He doesn’t take responsibility for anything, expects his mom to take care of him all the way through life, and he’s almost 30! My mom always says “where did I go wrong with him? how did I raise such an asshole?” and I just don’t know what to say..After a certain point, you just can’t lead them any way. Kids will make stupid choices and most will learn from it, and unfortunately, some don’t and remain assholes, like my brother. I just tell her she is lucky she has at least a couple of normal kids who she can be proud of. There’s a lot of pressure in knowing your mom favors you.

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• 37. Beatrice Rodrigues  |  May 21st, 2012 at 7:51 am

  I’m trying to say that I’ve thought about this a lot! How much can parenting do?

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